Having particpated in the site by selling a toddler's bed, I'm afraid you are now part of the system responsible. I know, it sounds crazy... but it's true, you're just as guilty as those corrupt fools who are responsible for creating the software and paying for the hosting that allows it to exist on the Internet - providing you a FREE place to hock your wares. Wait, while you were viewing the adult section, did you by chance flag any of the posts? If not, you might as well go turn yourself in at your local police station for contributing to the human trafficking trade.

When I sold the toddler bed on the site I was not aware of the solititation taking place on Craigslist, or I would have obviously found an alternative. I was commenting on the irony that it is possible to sell childrens' furniture on the same site where I now know that human solititing takes place. I think the anger in your post should be directed toward the soliciters and executives at Craigslist, rather than someone who is an advocate for those who are victims of such a horrible crime.

@Michelle - How much did it cost you to post your toddler bed? For the person you sold it to, how much did it cost them to read your post? I'm execting the answer is $0.

So, lets say 5 billion ads like yours go through Craig's list every day. 5 billion x $0 = $0. Now, how many people can Craig's List afford to hire to monitor posts with the revenue they're getting from people like you. How about 0.

Do you know why Craig's List is even usable? Because community members spend their time monitoring content and using the flagging system to mark posts as spam, scams, illegal, etc. 

You are fully empowered to go on the site and flag anything you feel needs to be monitored. As far as I can tell, YOU benifited a lot more from the post you put on the site than those "executives"... so why not spend some of your time helping out instead of branding them as evil?

Just a thought.

Guess what Scott. I decided to take your advice and I went on the adult section so I could flag suspicious posts. Unfortunately the "flag" option was not available on the adult section. It is available on every section EXCEPT the adult section. So maybe you should stop pointing the finger at everyone else and accept that Craigslist is to blame for the exploitation that occurs on their site.

Yeah, you're right. They've replaced it with an even more effective tool:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/exploitation_of_minors

A collection of toll free hotline numbers to report illegal behavior. How about that.

Yeah, that's great! Phone numbers and websites, but no option for us to directly filter the content on the site as you suggested above. So they are just passing the buck, and in reality, making it more complicated for individuals to monitor the site.

You're right, I was wrong. Those particular ads are paid ads - so they fit a different paridigm. They are passing the buck - to law enforcement organizations. How crazy is that? 

You're right, it is a much larger problem.  I have sent the letter to the founder of craigslist, but there's no reason for us not to contact those other publications.  None of this is okay, particularly when those "adult services" are being offered against someone's will, or there is a child involved.

I don't have the time to read the classifieds of every major newspaper in the city, but would be very happy to click on more actions that support the end of publications being used to traffic humans.

No, but you can start with your local alt weeklies. For example, the Portland Mercury out of Portland, OR (I saw you're from OR on your profile). Their online classifieds have plenty of ads for call-girls and such: http://classifieds.portlandmercury.com/portland 

Granted, this is their online classfieds.  Check out the classfieds in their paper to see if they publish them (as I know Minneapolis' City Pages does).

Thank you, I'll check into it.

This is a problem where I am in Canada. Indoor prostitution without pimps is legal, and the authorities would rather have prostitutes advertise in weeklies than walk the streets. So the issue is for the weeklies to make sure that everyone involved is a consenting adult. I have no idea how they do it, or if they even try.

Sorry for coming in on this so late, I've been out of an Internet connection for a while.

Anemone, is it possible to contact your local authorities or write to the publications and ask them? If their answers are unsatisfactory then you can start a petition in your area to up the ante, so to speak. You may have to try and find a reasonable solution yourself so the parties involved can't claim lack of options.

Scott, I disagree with you on parts of this.  I fail to see how holding craigslist accountable is the same as attacking them, first off.

Secondly, holding them accountable for allowing people to use their site to traffic humans is not the same as attacking windows.  Windows is a software company, not an online classifieds that is encouraging illegal activities on its site.

I do however agree that the fact that this material is prolific on CL is a reflection on its users.  Someone is obviously making money from their CL ads, or they wouldn't continue posting them.  And that's sad.

I think Scott is right. It is so absurd to attack Craiglist in the name of being against exploitation. Since traffickers used cars to transport victims, wouldn't it be logically consistent to demand the banning of all cars?

Predictably, the call for going after Craigslist equates all adult services with traffickers. Therefore anything associated with adult services is on the other side of holy war.

I hope the traffickers stay out of convenience stores. I would be sad if my local one was shut down. Rev. Bookburn - Radio Volta

Microsoft is a horrible comparison.  Try using a newspaper or other similar arena that could allow comparable ads.  You won't because mainstream newspapers have standards in order to gain and encourage public trust.

Why do you think Ebay eventually stopped allowing the sale of used underwear?  Originally it was allowed but after it became public knowledge that perves were paying high prices for dirty underwear Ebay change its policy and wisely so.  We promote what we accept and allow.

They are accountable to the public for what is on their site.  How can I in good conscience support a site that is aware that ads placed in their adult section are leading to "several cases of minor and adult human trafficking victims being sold via Craigslist" and their only answer is to change the name of the section and put policies in place that are not being followed?  I won't.  You very well might, but I am thinking that the minority will hence policy will change or Craigslist will lose revenue.  It is a business after all.

@Michele - A newspaper is an entirely different example and does not fit. A newpaper manually reviews and enters every bit of content. Craig's List is a automated service, a piece of SOFTWARE, that automatically posts content for the user.

The volume of content going through Craig's List is absolutely insane. If they actually hired screeners to monitor that volume of content, there's no way they could afford to stay in business.

It's a ***free*** service to ALL but a minor subset of post types. For the most part, it's a GIFT. It's amazing how quickly an attitude of entitlement develops. You have this wonderful free tool at your disposal and you attack the people who provide it for not living up to your standards.

There are absolutely zero barriers keeping the police from going on Craig's Lists and reading the posts for themselves. It's not that hard.

Furthermore, YOU have access to go on the site and REPORT any posts that appear to be human trafficing. Are you doing YOUR part?!

The only issue with the police going onto Craigslist is the man power that would take and the police are stretched thin as it is. The only way I could see for this to work is if officers parused the site, for lack of a better word, in areas where they are often "bored" during the day or during down time. But then you come into the chain of command issues that run rampant in any law enforcement organization.

please stop referencing this idea of "public trust"...it is because of many of these media outlets constant screaning of its material that has resulted in a reduction in "public trust"...many and i mean MANY have lost faith in the traditional media outlet as a source of free, unabated and non-partisan press.  Thats why we are here...In fact, many are turning to the internet and 'civilian' blog posters for their news.....We need to preserve FREE!  Free press, free speech, free economics, free thought, free discussion.........

P.S. I agree that human life is improtant and should be perserved, but we have got to consider the importance of freedom.....I have a life too!  One which i personally have NO desire to live if I cant live it freely!  We used to feel this way as a society!  Freedom used to be the most important element in our lives!  This is what makes us distictly human....free personal choice!

What is freedom?  Come on now.  I'll stop running on about public trust and you stop running on about how an erotic section at Craigslist somehow maintains your freedom.

I think the GNU License is a far better example of promoting freedom of expression and creation in technology and Get this!-not one child has been trafficked as a result!

@Michele - I don't think you understand how ridiculous it is to think that one person could possibly monitor all of the content on Craig's List.

I also suspect you don't have a clue what it takes to host Craig's List on the Internet (money, knowledge, and man hours).

It really doesn't matter if you're not "willing to pay" because you don't have to.... it's FREE for you.

As far as erotic services are concerned, a responsible sex worker is considerably safer screening clients through Craig's List rather than putter him/herself on the street. Chances are, CL saves more lives than we'll ever know.

And how in the world does the GNU license apply to Craig's List? Please explain, because that makes absolutely no sense to me. Being an open source contributor myself, I can't wait to hear this one.

Does sitting back blasting the people who brought us this free tool this make you feel like you've done your civic duty? 

There's nothing stopping you from going on Craig's List and contributing YOUR time to this FREE service to HELP prevent these kinds of crimes from happening again.

Ya know, I know you have good intent. I know you actually beleive in what you're saying. I know you just want to do your part to stop human suffering. And no, I'm not critisizing you for that.

But I tell ya what, why don't you go start "Michele's List" and solve this problem for the world. I mean, how hard can it be? And besides, you'll get to make $100 million a year, give 31 (30 plus your 1 person for screening) people jobs, AND save the world from human trafficking. Go get em!

Seriously, you need to find a way to not get personal and still have a discussion.  Your remarks telling me what I should do or not do are irrelevant.  If you want to know things I am or am not doing then ask but please don't lecture me on what I should be doing without knowing anything about me.

@Michele - I'm sorry you feel personally attacked. I am extremely passionate about this topic as it's directly related to a much bigger and much more crucial topic regarding the direction the Internet is going. I'm not sure if you're familiar with net-nutrality issues, but there are grabs to take control of the Internet coming from business and government in every direction. Largely, the tactics are based on "the way things have been". Up until now, every channel of communication we've known is a few-to-many channel and the Internet is the first many-to-many channel that exists. This has drastically changed our world in both good and bad ways. I'm a firm believer in the many-to-many channel and am very scared of what we will lose if the Internet becomes too controlled. This attack on Craig's list shows a clear misunderstanding of what the site is. It is not a content provider, it is a tool provider. How we, the people, choose to use that tool is up to us and is a reflection of us. 

As users of the tool, we should step up and ask for changes. But to critisize the makers of the tool, to blame them for the way people use the tool... this is not fair nor accurate. It frustrates me that people are so attached to dealing with few-to-many communication mediums and continue to apply these notions to wonderful and useful new things.

I'm sorry my energy upset you.

Your energy doesn't upset me and I don't feel attacked.  I do think your comments are doing nothing to further your argument.

We should never allow our passion to prevent us from seeing a great atrocity.  Do you know what I mean here?  We know that children are being sold through this service that we also know it is a paid service that is owned by a group of people who profit from it.  I think we've established these two things.

I don't advocate for shutting down Craigslist or attacking the founder (and I don't believe anyone has directly attacked the founder in this discussion have they?) but I do advocate for Craigslist, the company, to set its own precedence and do the right thing to ensure that their free tool does not become a tool for trafficking of minors or adults.

Everyone and everything is open to criticism, especially a business or person that is so often in the public eye.  I can take your criticism too, but I think your criticism of me is unwarranted and unfair and based on gross assumptions on your part.

Tell me more about the importance of net-neutrality and convince me that by placing public pressure on Craigslist to take responsibility and prevent future ads that have led to the trafficking of children and adults will effect net-neutrality in a negative, permanent way.

I think we want the same things here.  Tell me if I'm wrong.  I would like to:

1. Not allow children and adults to be subject to trafficking because of new technology or free tools that are developed with only positive intent.

2. Maintain and promote free tools on the Internet that benefit humanity and insure that the governments and businesses do not become owners or police(wo)men of the web.

If we can agree on these two things then we can begin to discuss how best to insure both without attacking anyone.

Of course you think my criticism of you is unwarrented. On to your points:

1) It's already "not allowed" by the law and there's nothing preventing the police from monitoring Craig's List for these violations. In fact, the existence of CL makes it that much easier TO monitor. This issue is a null point.

2) You're promoting the opposite. You said "businesses do not become ... police(wo)men of the web" but you also say you want "Craigslist to take responsibility and prevent future ads." That is a clear contradiction.

It's not a contradiction.  It's what I want.  Craigslist has the freedom of choice.  I want them to choose right.  The more vocal potential or current users are the more likely Craigslist instills the change it said it would.  It has nothing to do with government or corporate takeovers.

I just read this ad in my local newspaper yesterday: http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200990729085

Bryan, people are not working to change this aspect of Craigslist because they want to infringe on the rights of others or do not believe in the importance of the freedom of press or other important freedoms we currently enjoy as citizens of the US.

Read the below that is about a child trafficking case on Craigslist:

"Katherine Chon, Executive Director of the Polaris Project, wrote the following on Not For Sale, the campaign to end slavery in our lifetime:

In one recent case, two Chicago women were charged for selling girls as young as 14 years old on Craigslist. The girls were forced to have sex with 10-12 men per day, and the traffickers made tens of thousands of dollars. A Boston man and his niece were charged with plotting a child trafficking operation with teenagers as young as 13 by selling them on Craigslist to predators from Massachusetts to New York. These cases are just the tip of the iceberg. In fact, law enforcement efforts to fight trafficking nationwide are consistently reporting a spike in online Craigslist ads, and how sex trafficking has "moved online" lately." 

You can read the entire article here:

http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/children-for-sale-on-craigslist/

Perhaps the answer is not to end Craigslist's Erotic section but to work together to find a way to screen this section and prosecute as many illegal transactions as possible.  IF this section is making traffickers and prostitutes comfortable enough to post regularly, it is a good place to find them and prosecute them. 

But First, Craigslist has to admit that the erotic section is a problem that deserves addressing and then willingly address it and so do the many, like yourself, who think that 10 -12 year old's being forced to have sex is somehow an acceptable side effect of maintaining your freedoms to use an online, free want ad system.

Also, I wanted to ad that I think the GNU License is a far better example of technology that promotes freedom to express and create than Craigslist.  It's a free want ad system.  It's hardly the best thing since swiss cheese and the technology is not evolving--it is what it is.

It's all about social responsibility. If Craigslist was really intent on policing itself, it would. This is not about free speech, or the ability to say anything you want to in print; it is about selling items that are illegal, such as selling stolen property, which is much harder to screen. But Craiglist HAS a responsibility to monitor their site and what they sell. Things may fall through the cracks, but they have to try. Don't kid yourself, they know what they are doing.

I am not responsible for contributing to a site that has an illegal element to it simply because I wish to buy or sell an item. How would I know this in advance. Also, human nature being what it is, it is just as easy to exploit individuals from both sides of the fence - those that buy and those that sell.

Again, this is about SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, and anyone who makes a profit must be encouraged to abide by this principal.

@Michele - What does a software license have to do with an online service model? 

"IF this section is making traffickers and prostitutes comfortable enough to post regularly, it is a good place to find them and prosecute them. "

That's EXACTLY the point. It's a public space. There's nothing to stop the police from monitoring these sections. 

@Barbara - you said "But Craiglist HAS a responsibility to monitor their site and what they sell. "

Craig's List doesn't sell. Users of the site sell. 

"I am not responsible for contributing to a site that has an illegal element to it simply because I wish to buy or sell an item."

You are gifted a FREE tool that makes your life easier. Every time you post a FREE ad, it creates and expense for the people who run the site.

But all of your "Social Responsibility" falls onto the people who gifted you to begin with. There's no way YOU should be responsible... no... not at all. It's definitely someone ELSE's responsibility.

Nice.. very nice.

See numerous other threads on this forum about how most "hoes" don't want to be "hoes". They don't want safer work - they want out.

This is about human rights for people of all ages. People who generally aren't in a position to just go to the authorities and get help, for many many reasons, even though what is being done to them is illegal apart from it being labelled "prostitution".

Michelle: I, too have used Craigslist. However, I have stopped using them when I realized they would put anything on their site. Therefore, I boycott. They make a lot a money from first time users, and that is why they stay in business. I do not consider myself to be reponsible for keeping them open, and honest. That is their job, not mine.

I agree with all your comments.

So you're OK with a prostitution section in Nevada then, right? And I don't just mean "adult services" because things like sensual massage are still entirely legal... as are escort services... but so long as it's *legal* it's alright for the site to put it big bold letters, "Get Your Hookers Here"... Ya know, so long as we're following the fine letter of the law.

It's clever how you (plural) can roll prostitution into the same dialog as selling children. Yeah, it's illegal.. but from a moral standpoint, selling sexual services is a far cry from forcing a child into sexual slavery. It is handy how you (plural) can lump the two together to create a greater impression to support your case though.

What's going on here... this blog post in general... basically attempts to shout out to the world that the owners of Craig's List support children being sold into a sex slave.

You (plural) are making a collective effort to damage the reputation of an organization that gifted you with a free tool that improves the lives of millions. They've also taken the time to build tools to allow you to help them manage the site and keep it both legal and useful.

Yet, you would rather spend your time bashing them and destorying their reputation than contribute to the Craig's List community in a positive way.

It's a whole lot easier to sit back and point your finger at someone else than it is to get up and contribute. 

@Barbara - They make a lot of money from first time users?! Please explain.

It hasn't gifted me with anything.  I've never used this free tool and will not use it in the future unless they take action on this issue.

In regards to your other response about the GNU License; you're talking about how something that is free, online and technological is so great.  First, I am pointing out that it is not free (especially considering so much money is being made) and second that there are far better technologies, used online and elsewhere, that are actually free.

You're comparing apples with spaceships. The GNU public license refers strictly to source code and software. Open source software is an amazing blessing and, in my mind, represents what technology should be. While corporations keep their software cosed and work to keep innovation from happening - open source authors share knowledge and ideas freely with the world. The GNU license simply exists to make it more difficult for corporations (or individuals, actually) to take advantage of the open source movement. It prevents them from putting the code into their proprietary products without recognizing where it comes from. Mac OS X is built on free software (FreeBSD). Microsoft has repeatedly violated GPL in the past and recently released source because they were, again, in violation.

This has nothing to do with Craig's List. CL is an online Web service. Most of it's services are free to any user. There is no software to download or share. It's a virtual space and it is the access to this space that is free - not a digital copy of the code that runs the site.

What Craig's List is giving away is also use of it's server infrastracture and the bandwidth they have to pay for. When you download open source, you might get it from any potential source and it costs the original author nothing. When you post to Craig's list, you use thier bandwidth and storage - so it always costs them something.

I'm a huge fan of it and I'm a fan of it for the reasons you describe above. It is a clear and constant representation of what technology is when placed in the right hands.

I made the correlation because I was pointing out that there are far better things out there promoting technology and creativity than your beloved Craigslist.  That is all.

Craigslist is not giving away anything.  They are making a profit and are running a business.  They created a business model to profit off of while providing a service.  The two are very disimilar in this way, you're right, but that was my point to begin with.

Given your point of view, there are little to no non-profits in the world that are giving anything away. Even the employees at my local food bank earn a wage. Just because it is a business doesn't change the fact that millions of people benefit from the service without personal expense.

That's funny.  I'm the founder of and have worked without pay for 5 years in the non profit I started.  We give so much away but we get so much in return (not in cash however).

Also, I know of MANY non profits we regularly partner with that do the same.  Our next office space is at a science and technology museum that is run by 100% volunteers as well.  They hope to give away knowledge and a love of science and technology to youth.  Take a look around and ask questions before you make assumptions. 

On top of that, the website our organization has is run on a 100% donated server with as much space as we can use and the technology used to run our site is 100% free generated by programmers under the GNU license. If you've ever heard of Joomla, that's what we use but we also use many, many extensions on top of Joomla.  Honestly, I could go on and on and on.

Actually, I was referencing statitics but, whatever... I'm just glad life has afforded you the freedom to not have to work for a living for 5 years. That must be wonderful.

Scott, do you honestly feel that someone who founds and/or works for a non-profit does not work????  I would invite you to spend some time at a local non-profit, volunteer a little of your time trying to improve the lives around you.  People who work for non-profits not only have to work for a living, but often at longer hours, doing work nobody else wants to do.  Their work is often grant-funded, meaning little to no job security, and believe me, as far as pay goes, the only reason people would work for a non-profit is because they are passionate about helping others.  I'm disappointed that you feel the need to become defensive and attack others.  You are attacking people who are working VERY hard to make all of our lives better.  Please take the higher road.

I care enough about the work I do and raising my three kids to bypass providing the possible second income in our household.  You said you were passionate about this topic.  Well, I am very, very passionate about the work I do.

Please don't make assumptions.  Ask questions, or if it's unimportant to you and you just don't care, don't comment at all about my personal life. 

@Romy - Thanks for being presumptuous. I've donated my time to many non-profits. From the local food bank to fund raising organizations. Some of it was hard work, some of it was pretty fun. Regardless, I never said anything to the contrary and you've either misunderstood to taken what I said out of context.

@Michele - I didn't say anything about your personal life that you didn't already bring up. You said you've worked without pay for 5 years. I, personally, would find it a blessing to be able to put that much time into a project. Somehow, you seem to be offended by that. Interesting.

I think it's the implication that I don't work when I know that I work very hard which makes it offensive.

Either way, it's off topic and one of many topics we're going to have to agree to disagree on.  Unless you would like to disagree on that too :)

I don't think I'm being presumptious for calling you on your rudeness.  You were being presumptious when Michele mentioned that she worked without pay for five years, and somehow you equated that to not working for a living for five years.  Working without pay is working.  Your tone was snide.  Really, the personal attacks on others weakens your position.  Further, it distracts us from the issue at hand, which is craigslist and human trafficking.

I went on Craigslist the other night, to the adult services section, to see what was there, even though being there made me feel like a pervert.  I found it very disturbing that many of the ads (for women for sale) were written in third person, indicating that someone else was "selling" this person.  Some of the photos were of girls that looked younger than 18 to me.  I'm quite certain that the majority of the photos were not of the person being described in the ad.  Also disturbing were many of the adjectives used, which sold these people based on racial or other stereotypes, using words such as submissive, Asian, young, etc.  Also disturbing were dollar amounts, such as "$100 special."  For what????  Isn't prostitution illegal in most states?  For that reason, I don't understand why there is an "adult services" section in CL.  It is merely a poorly disguised front for prostitution, and I am convinced after reading several of the ads that not just consenting adults are being exploited.

I tried to report some of them, and was distressed to learn that there was no link to report suspicious posts to craigslist.  There were links to report to local police and to national trafficking sites, but that's it.  I did report one post to local police but felt it was a drop in the bucket compared to what CL is permitting.  I have a hard time understanding how they can get away with this, and there needs to be some accountability.

@Michele - I never said you didn't work. To that extent, I do disagree. But you're right, we're way off topic.

@Romy - Had you been following all of the comment conversation, you would have caught on to the history of CL where these ads were originally literred through the personals section. By creating the adult services section, it removed the noise.

You're also being fooled, to a degree. Many of the postings you're thinking are prostitution are actually even worse. They're bait traps for porn rings. Basically, once you reply to a post, they have your email address. From there, bots work to lure you into either webcam sites or porn sites. This goes largely unregulated in terms of legalities.

This is coming from the same people who brought you bot nets. Millions of Windows machines all over the Internet are hosting nodes of a bot net that spams and manipulates content for profit. From posting comments for viagra in blogs to posing as young horny women in forums - it's all just a machine build to leech pennies from the underworld of the Internet.

This is a huge battle all over the Internet that sites like CL have been dealing with for a long time. I've had to deal with this type of noise on many sites myself. It is very difficult. When the bots were making the posts, I could just enter human verification checks such as captcha.If a bot was smart enough to get around it, I'd just make the check stronger.

However, when the gold farmers came in doing human attacks... I had to track down a contact at the company behind the exploitation and have some exchanges before I managed to get them to leave my web properties alone. Given that they were located somewhere in Asia, there were not authorities for me to approach.

I'll go so far as to agree that CL can do more than they do. I won't, however, support anyone who believes they they are knowingly and willfully encouraging child sex slaves. I wouldn't even, personally, say that they are "responsible"... 

I can see why people are as upset as they are. Walking into CL for the first time, it is a "it's not what it looks like" situation. It takes learning and understanding how and why things are like they are to get a grasp on where responsibility truly falls.

Sorry Scott, you did say I didn't work but added a prepositional phrase.  Either way, I think I misinterpreted your tone-text does this to me at times.

Glad we're back on topic.  For the record, I do not think that CraigsList is willfully supporting and encouraging child sex slaves.  All I want is for them to own up to the promises they've publicly made.  I don't know why they haven't owned up to it--could be time, schedule, lack of ability, education or resource.  It's that simple.

Net neutrality is a separate issue for me and one that I firmly support.

Thanks, Scott for the historical perspective.  I did read the previous posts, but I still managed to miss that piece entirely.

Your information on the porn rings makes me particularly glad I didn't click on any of the individual links.  I felt disgusted enough just being on there. 

I realize that law enforcement agencies are already underfunded and overworked, so what can we do?  We can't flag them, and we can't know for sure whether a post is trafficking people without clicking on something potentially very nasty, although some posts are more suspicious than others. 

It seems that there needs to be some regulation in this.  So my thought is, does Craigslist NEED this section, or to advertise these services?  If they are allowing this, does that not support it?  I won't go so far as to say that they are trying to solicit human traffickers, but they must be aware, since they were cracked down on about it a while back.  If they eliminated Adult Services entirely from their site, they would not have to worry about it.  And traffickers would lose an easy route they now have.  Seems they could do more to make it more difficult for the traffickers.

This is just really upsetting.  And from what you said, it sounds like there needs to be some regulation regarding the porn rings and the bots.  Yucch.

@Romy, if they remove that section, all of that noise will move back into other sections of the site. They'll also lose the revenue stream. With less revenue than they have now, I'd be surprised if they could continue to afford staff to monitor content. Kind of a catch-22.

FWIW, the discussion about the history of CL was in the comments for this post, but not in this particular thread of the comments. It's further below.

Personally, about those underfunded and overworked law enforcement agencies, I'd like to see a whole helluva lot less of my money wasted on the drug war. This goes back to a strong personal belief that people should be allowed to do to themselves what they choose - provided they are not harming other people. The drug war costs billions of dollars, our dollars, that could be spent doing things like - helping to save children from becoming sex slaves.

But that's a whole different topic altogether.

Scott, although we don't agree on everything, I believe you are spot on about law enforcement and other government resources being used for the war on drugs.  In my opinion, it isn't entirely a different topic because ending our unsuccessful war on drugs, and directing the moneys to stopping pedophiles and other exploiters would make this country a better place to live.  I could write entire pages about this...

Why couldn't CL charge a nominal fee for all ads, and remove all adult content?  They'd make money, but they'd remove a resource for unscrupulous abusers.  For that matter, why isn't there an option on CL for users to flag adult posts??  This would be a small concession to make.  I suppose there would be those who would flag every single one, but then that sends a message too, doesn't it.  Just a thought.  I believe CL could be doing A LOT more than they are, but they are more concerned with their bottom line than human lives and well being.

@Romy - Honestly, I think if they charged for every ad, the site would tumble and fall. I have no evidence to support that notion. I do know that there are lots of classified ads sites and CL is one of the few that really truly works. Somehow, they're doing something right... and I think being free is part of it. 

I tried listing my vehicle on Autotrader, which charged a fee. In addition to not getting a single bite, I had tons of direct phone calls from dealers trying to get me to come in and look at their stock. At the very least, I know CL isn't selling my contact information behind my back.

I believe parth of the Ethos of CL is to provide a service, and make *us* responsible for how we use it... and part of me very much likes this.

As a business, you're right... their first concern is the bottom line. 

Regarding "flag every single one"... I'm sure there are lots of people who would. For nearly everything we do, there's someone who can see it as immoral. As a service provider, I know I wouldn't want to dictate to people what's right and wrong. If someone wants to make a living giving rub and tugs, I'm not going to stop them from it.

But protecting children is important... and it needs attention... It just has to be focused and educated attention - not angry lashings convoluted with mixed messages about prostitution. At least, that's my humble opinion.

I think it would be nice if CL attempted to address the topic publically... However, just from the comments in this blog post alone, I don't think they could get a fair public hearing. I would expect them to die a painful death of well picked sound bites.

*sigh*

We are blaming them because they have said a lot but are doing very little.

This is a very stupid comment because I NEVER implied anything you just said. You look for arguments, but you are not looking for common sense.

Thank you for this. Yes, I can see where the emotional gravity is to get mad at Craig's List. I should better acknowledge this, because my defense of CL tends to offend the core values of inspire people for change. I get passionate and dont' always think.

Alternatively, I think it's reasonable for us to approach the legal authorities and ask whey THEY are not doing a better job of monitoring Craig's List. It is an open space where they can do exactly what WE PAY THEM to do - to protect and serve. This *is* the job of the police and if any human trafficking is happening on Craig's List, the police have no excuse not to be working to stop it.

I agree with your last paragraph.  Imagine the powerful union that could be made possible if Craigslist, the Craigslist community and the police worked together.

@Michelle - Prostitution is legal in some places. Selling one's own sexual services is not the same as selling chidlren as sex slaves. The ethics of prostitution are heavily debated. However, the practice of selling children as sex slaves is largely considered unehtical. By lumping prostitution into the same discussion, we do a disservice to the attempt to protect chidren. It clutters the discussion, confuses the issues, and distracts from the extremely important mission of helping chidlren.

I would give in to a well placed arguement that Craig's list knowingly profits from the underground prostitution trade provided it aknowledged that there are adult services that are legal and that the illegal services are not blatantly offering their services but rather - no matter how poorly - using innuendo. 

However, to imply in your attacks on Craig's List that they in any way knowingly support the exploitation of children is a huge leap. It is blatant propaganda techniques with the intent to damage the reputation of the site. This is unethical.

Just because a product is used in a crime does not mean the creator of that product is at fault. We don't shut down the maker of baseball bats when one is used to crack a windshield - or even a skull. It's just plain common sense.

If an individual has the intent to sell a child as a sex slave, the existence of Craig's List is not going to effect their decision to do it. It just happened to be the tool they chose to use and this is NOT the fault of the people who own and operate Craig's List.

What we have here is a witch hunt so that folks can feel "better" about themselves for having attacked someone in response to this crime.

You know what will happen when Craig's List starts doing a better job of keeping that kind of content off their site? That kind of content will simply move somewhere else - potentially to a place harder for the police to track. You will simply push the criminal further underground instead of solving the problem at it's source.

The whole thing is a farce. But it's easy to rally support against the big corporation in the name of saving innocent children.

These efforts are misguided, and that's a shame.

Now you're claiming Craigslist is the big corporation?  I thought it was the small guy kindly offering great free tools?  It turns out you're not even sure of their policies and misinformed about the realities of the company. 

The real shame is that you know kids and adults both are being trafficked on that site and the only thing you care about is mindlessly defending Craigslist and, of course, Craig.

None of us really know if Craigslist knowingly supports the exploitation of children. We do know that Craigslist does not care enough about the victims to do their due diligence and ensure that people are not using their site to exploit children. My thought is that they care more about profit than they do about victims. (Talk about unethical)

Those who oppose Craigslist do so, I believe, not to make themselves feel better, but to help in the struggle against trafficking. Scott is right about one thing, if Craigslist takes down the adult section, the traffickers will find another avenue. The point is to destroy these avenues one by one and finally paint traffickers into a corner so they are no longer able to victimize people. We are a long way from this, but every step counts.

@Michele: Actually, I'm not claiming CL is a big corporation.It was a satrical reflection of other's projected perceptions. Read much? 

It's also clever what you did there... pinning blame on me for not doing something to stop the trafficking. Reminds me of a Bush quote, "if you're not with us, you're with the Terrorists!"

I started releasing open source code in 94. I'm famliar with the Ethos and the scene. For years I've run Ubuntu as my OS, Gimp as my image editor, and Firefox as my browser.

I've also been using Craig's List for many years and have seen the site (both technology and community) evolve and change over the years.

Over the years, Craig's List has gone through some phases where it was so loaded down with spam that it was almost unusable. In fact, many of your "human trafficking posts" are actually just spam lures. Anyway, the site develops issues and they deploy technical changes to resolve those issues. The response usually takes time to get right.

I also spent a few years working as an online community manager and felt the insane frustration of attempting to monitor thousands of online users on a day to day basis. The metaphore of "hearding cats" comes to mind.

Craig's List might need to do more. Then again, it might not. I know enough to know that I would need to spend a couple of days in their office to really figure out what their ethos is, what their technical approaches are, what their revenue and expense streams look like, etc. BEFORE passing judgement on the amount of additional effor they need to put into monitoring tools and staff.

One thing is clear, CL is an open, public space. Law enforcement has - at least- equal access as criminals. To that extent, anything CL does to help is a benefit to the net whole, not a loss. 

I don't think anyone here is intentionally slandaring their name. I'm pretty sure it's being done out of zealous ignorance and a misdirected sense of nobility.

However, this makes the whole thing simply more furstrating. Should this effort gather the mass support of millions of ignorant users, the effects could be damaging to Craig's List. Any legal fallout could serve to handicap future online projects.

As a developer, I have to be mindful of COPPA and DMCR. In rare cases, COPPA is properly adhered to by users. In most cases, underaged users simply lie about age to gain access. The DMCR is another ball of wax altogether. By opening yourself up to user generated content, you now have to manage the responsibility of IP enforcement. This is an almost entirely gray-area set of laws where the lines are constantly moving.

The more and more online efforts become regulated and subject to penalty, the higher and higher the barrier to access becomes. Slowly, a single person with a big idea has less of an opportunity to contribute and only large organizations with the resources to manage all of the red tape get to play in the online space.

Eventually, the logical progression will take us to a place where the online world is no longer a many-to-many medium.

Example: Just a few days ago a news article surfaced; an apartment complex sued a tenant for posting a complaint to Twitter. If they someone woo an ignorant judge and win in court, the floodgates open allowing companies to sue when users submit poor ratings about their products.

If we're not active and mindful about how we build our online world, someone else will be.

Maybe you don't care now, but when your non-profit ends up in letigation because you didn't keep records of every transaction that happened on your Joomla site for the last 15 years... and you see all of your hard work and effort turned into a fiasco and find yourself on the other side of this blame game you're participating in now... it will merely be bitter irony of the energy you're projecting coming around and revisiting.

/rant

And by DMCR, I actually meant DMCA. I make mistakes. Often.

Scott, I can see your points.  I am hoping you will recognize that I don't want the internet to go in the direction you propose.  I do want Craigslist to do what they said they would do.

I can tell you that if I found out that somehow Joomla had a bug that allowed for traffickers to pass information along on a website that I was responsible for I would take steps to prevent it.  Craigslist did this very thing.  OK.  Great.  Problem is they didn't really do it.  Now if I said I would do it but didn't I would expect that I will be held accountable.

I'm not saying that Craigslist should be brought up on charges.  They should be held accountable and expected to do exactly what it is they said they would do.  Perhaps their stance should have been yours and then we'd be in a different argument entirely wouldn't we?

Having said all that, I don't believe you are to blame.  I did that to show you how ridiculous your constant anger at individuals here is--much like your corporate reference to Craigslist went over my head I think this went over yours.

For me none of this is about blame.  I don't blame Craigslist or anyone else that didn't commit the actual crime(s).  I just want action to help prevent future crime(s) and I am here to discuss the best way to do that.  I think holding Craigslist accountable for what they said they would do is a great start because they ARE accountable for their words aren't they?

You're right, and human beings run Craigslist.  If a gun dealer knowingly sells guns to someone who he knows plans to commit murder with it, is he/she complicit?  Yes. 

Another analogy, alcohol is not the problem, people who drink irresponsibly are.  Yet there are laws regulating the sale and usage of alcohol.  If I sell alcohol to a minor, or serve a visibly intoxicated individual, I will be held accountable.

Craigslist is being used as a venue by some unscrupulous people to traffick human beings.  Is Craigslist the "problem?"  Not necessarily, but should they not be held to the standard of not knowingly harming others as gun owners and alcohol servers and retailers do?  I would hope. 

Admittedly the internet tends to be a slippery slope, but that doesn't mean we should all turn our backs and do nothing.  Someone mentioned in an earlier post that in the adult section of craigslist, there is no place to "flag" or "report" a suspicious post.  Why is this?  Would that not be an important place to have this option?

Mark, you're right in the sense that traffickers will continue to exploit and hurt others for money.  That's all the more reason we must all work together to stop them.  In this sense, craigslist could choose to step up to the plate and be a responsible gatekeeper.  They could put flag options on their adult content.  They could even work to form a squad of volunteers to help screen posts, if they are so impoverished that they can't afford paid staff (which I don't believe).  But your logic that traffickers will continue to find new ways to traffic is akin to saying that we might as well sell alcohol and guns to kids since they'll probably find another way to get them anyway.  This is socially reprehensible. 

What we do to stop trafficking may feel like a drop in the bucket sometimes, but if it saves one life, it's worth it.

"Why do Americans always misplace blame?"

That is such a HUGE generalization and such an erroneous argument.

Indeed... all of those adult ads used to litterl the personal sections... and other more unappropriate sections.

So, instead of having these types of ads in the personals section, where the public has the opportunity to "flag" such ads and Craigslist could spend a little time and money to get unwanted ads out of it's personals section, Craigslist decides to create the erotic section so they can profit off of such ads, knowing that victimization still exists. This is supposed to be an argument in their defense?

Women in prostitution are vulnerable because their profession is illegal in most of the U.S. (and other countries) and they are looked down on by many people, and therefore going to the police for protection isn't a great option.

I agree, of course, that forced prostitution is reprehensible, especially of children, but I know that prostitution, like porn, is a choice for some and they don't necessarily all feel exploited. It wouldn't be my choice, but keeping it illegal and in the shadows is what allows exploitation.

Child prostitution is of a different order entirely.

I'm an occasional Craigslist user. I think it's a wonderful tool. I think having a separate adult services section keeps that out of other categories. If its presence offends you (speaking to anyone at large), then by all means, deprive CL of your free patronage of their other free services. The money they charge by credit card leaves an electronic paper trail for the police to use and creates revenue that can pay for human screening. Should they be doing better? Probably. Can they? I have no idea, and I doubt most of you do, either. It's not a simple problem with a simple solution and I sense that a lot of people here are unreasonably dumping on CL without understanding the implications of what they're demanding. Bravo to Scott for patiently explaining some of the issues. Boo hiss for those whose posts are just reeking with self-righteousness and are horrified, just horrified, when someone punctures their ego balloon. He's not the only one to occasionally make unfounded assumptions about others. (Someone wrote they KNOW that Craigslist *feels* a certain way. Want to rethink that?) Lighten up people. And thanks for the amusing reads! I've successfully wasted the better part of an hour reading thus far... 

Oh lord...worst typo ever.  Should say:  One does >> look for love or decency when on Craigslist Personals. 

DOH!  I wish this article had been out prior to my exposure.  Ewwwhhhhhh!  NASTY... yucky... twisted... sad...lonely...perverted.... people. 

No matter what a prostitute says with her "lips" I always feel like it must be a very sad place to be.  I cannot prove that - because apparantly there is SO BLOODY MUCH MONEY to be made in porn, prostitution and all things not GO(o)D, that many can forgoe all sense of conscious and decency. 

Again, one does NOT look for love on craigslist personals.  This is about sex.  If you aint there for sex, then you don't belong there.  Free or Purchased!

Now that is just plain funny! 

Putting PETA in charge is definitely risky. Just like any proposed steps to prevent human trafficking. Yeah, PETA's aims are good, but their single-mindedness seems to ride roughshod over people that aren't even guilty of hurting animals. Anti-trafficking advocates have their hearts in the right place but I would not want them in charge of my civil rights and free speech, personally.

Fantastic argument, nice imagery, "gobbled up by the beast"? Emotional arguments are powerful, but weak on facts. MOST of the women on Craig's List are gobbeld up by their OWN beast. They aren't PUT there, they put themselves there.

Sure, prositution is illegal, and it's been completely wiped out because it-...what? It HASN'T been wiped out? It's still practiced in EVERY state in the union? In EVERY country on the planet? How can this be, it's ILLEGAL!

Have you considered that it's very illegality is what breeds many of the abuses? Prositutes can't go to the police to report an abusive pimp, they get locked up for admitting their illegal activities. Medical care? You're a hooker, can't get it for free, there's no union or benefits, so you pay for it in cash, get substandard care, and then proceed to distribute the disease your sub-par care let you keep.

No, keeping it illegal simply allows the black market to breed new and worse evils for those women. Legalize it, regulate it, and TAX it, and those evils will be held up to the light of day. Men will always spend their money on prostitution, making it illegal and closing our eyes doesn't make it go away, it only covers their bruises and abuse better.

Legalize it, and prostitutes lives will get BETTER. Your morals aren't mine, (and mine aren't yours) morality shouldn't be legislated. It should be ENCOURAGED, but legislating it only creates a fascade of respectability, under which the immorality breeds unchecked. Black markets are the worst for human abuses, and the longer they exist, the worse the abuses will be. When the light of regulation shines on an industry, it's participants lives invariably improve.

You should watch the documentry Very Young Girls. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fX6EaHuRCg

Totally different topic from this one on CraigsList about prostitution and whether or not it's a victimless crime.

We should change legislation so that only the person paying for sex is a crimminal and the money spent on incarcarating prostitutes instead goes towards helping them recover through programs like GEMS http://www.gems-girls.org/

The more I read up on and find out about prostitution, the more involved I want to get to end it.

I have seen it. And if memory serves, they were all underage, and victimized for the sex they had to sell, not because they chose to sell it.

It's illegality CAUSES much of the violence and extraneous crimes around prostitution. When bad people know you can't go to the cops, they'll happily exploit you!

And how ludicrous is the idea of only punishing men?! Are you KIDDING?! If the woman has been forced into it, there is a far worse crime than prostitution going on. There is slavery, and kidnapping onvolved. If the woman is doing it willingly, then of course she should be subject to the same laws as men are.

They were all underage but if arrested went to jail for committing a crime--ironic considering it should be considered rape to have sex with them at all.

What the movie did show is how prostitution targets desperate and at risk girls who are looking for love.  In the movie the girls are sometimes beaten and abused and yet most choose prostitution over getting help.  They are used to the lifestyle and so they have a hard time getting out of it. 

These girls eventually turn 18 and they make up the majority of street prostitutes.  Hence a woman is not doing it willingly (I know men would LOVE to believe this), but the majority are rather doing it because of a desperate desire to be loved and a life that has forced them to make difficult decisions.

In Sweden it is illegal to buy a prostitute's services but not to sell it.  The law considers prostitution a form of violence against women (as do I).  It's not insane.  It is sanity.  Here in the states, in the least, we should be demanding that minors under 18 can't be charged with prostitution and that any man caught with a prostitute who is a minor is charged with statutory rape and classified a sex offender.

AMEN!  Thank you for this information.  I knew I liked Sweden for a reason!  Prostitution IS a form of violence against women.  Consider the number of prostitutes who are raped, assaulted, and murdered.  They are treated as non-persons and blamed for their victimization.  Yet who would volunteer for that?

Anyone who thinks that prostitution is okay should consider how they'd feel about their mother, sister, or daughter doing it.  Also consider the way she would be treated by her "customers," pimp, and society in general.

I see a big parallel between women who are afraid to leave their abusive spouses for a variety of reasons, and women who are afraid to leave their abusive job.  Especially if they have been abused their whole lives and have never had a healthy male role model to look up to.  I watched a former porn star on a talk show a while back that stated that 100% of the female porn actresses she had known were sexually abused as children.  There's a reason people choose the sex profession, and a lot of it has to do with self worth.

How can Craigslist NOT take a bigger stand against this??

"anything that defiles the mind / body / soul is NOT a GO(o)D thing despite how much money you can make doing it."

Wait, are we talking about forcible exploitation here, or about sex? Because the attitude that sex "defiles" the mind/body/soul be definition would be really screwed up.

OH..and the beast I referred to was not Craigs List - it was greed.  It is because of the love of money and lack of love for SELF that we find our sisters, mothers, daughters selling themself in the first place. 

The next time you are on CL, and you take a looksie through the personals - erotic - maybe you will see someone in your family there making a decent living.  Would you feel the same then or would you just call them for an appointment?

"While we are it... could we legalize murder, pedophilia, rape, and all the other crimes that are committed against women"

This is a fallacious argument. Those are all crimes of violence, where one has it forced upon them. Prostitution generally has two willing partners. Comparing the two is disingenuous at best.

There ARE those who are forced into the life, but that is due to it being an outlawed activity. If it weren't illegal, then prostitutes could go to the police without fear of reprisal for their own 'crimes.'

"They call Las Vegas "sin city" for a reason!"

They do? It's not because of prostitution, because it's illegal in Las Vegas. It is legal OUTSIDE of Vegas, but not in the city proper. It helps when your arguments are valid.

"maybe you will see someone in your family there making a decent living.  Would you feel the same then or would you just call them for an appointment?"

Actually, I would probably try and talk them out of it, find them a different career for them (HELP!). I certainly don't want my family members doing this sort of stuff, but to TELL them what to do? To FORCE them to live as I think they should? That's not my business, and it isn't yours either.

And for what it's worth, Bible references are of little value. There can be plenty of references found within relating the unimportance of women, belittling them, etc. It is a far cry from a real supporter of women's rights.

I use both CL and Freecycle. There is no need to force Craigslist to duplicate Freecycle. Each service has its pros and cons. I have found giving through Freecycle to be generally a pleasant experience, as people are grateful and they don't try bargaining down from an already low price, like they do on CL. Still, I like the option of using CL because I don't want to have to necessarily give away everything that I no longer need, and eBay seems like a lot of trouble.

I got free vitamins on Freecycle, I'm not aware those are considered drugs. Freecycle's restrictions are fine for that forum, but it doesn't meet everyone's needs. I'm grateful there's also a Craigslist. You don't like it, you don't use it. Hooray for freedom of choice!

I don't really care about your choices Jaye T and don't see how it is relevant.  My entire problem with CraigsList is that they are saying they will do certain things and failing to.  I keep repeating it but it keeps getting lost in the several other arguments going on within this thread.

DO NOTHING / SAY NOTHING ::  Do we let our children do what they feel is best...whether we agree or not and realize they will pay the price.  These are their lessons to learn.  From the exploiter to the exploited to those that have a mutual interest in the sex industry (prostitute/porn star ~ all those that make money off of them). 

SPEAK UP / NO CHANGE :: Maybe we should just speak up and say we don't agree - we've gone through most of this.  We've been exploited our self one way or another!  We were young and needing attention to fulfill our own ego or self worth issues.  In the end woman have the one thing that men seem to want :: SEX.  I think that is part of why our species has survived - so obviously that's not bad. So, sure...enjoy your sex while your young - because according to studies once you are over the age of 40 you are much less desirable to men in the first place, as they are moving toward younger and younger girls for entertainment.  Part of the reason we have more of these issues is that woman are disassociated from one another at an early age.  We see one another as competition - as we are running toward being some "man's" prize toy.  We blame the other women, not the men.  Hmmm.. maybe women should start talking a little more!

SPEAK UP / with CHANGE ::  I really don't have an answer.  I just pray for all the women who are forced or chose to become a venture capitalist selling one's body!  I pray that the realization of how sacred our bodies are & to experience the difference between selling your "goods" with the highest bidder to sharing them with another spiritual being who respects and honors YOU!  To make a positive change we must embrace our sisters, mothers, daughters, and friends and find ways to assist them when they are ready to make a change.  Don't judge them and definitely don't hate them.   I do not believe this type of lifestyle is a spiritually fulfilling one - but I do know there are a lot of men who will be very angry if prostitutes were to go on strike.  Have you thought about that?   Imagine a world of men who can't relieve their sexual frustration on their own accord.  What a sad world that would be?  L     Yeah...no sympathy here buddy! 

"Here's an example that most of simpletons can understand."

 Disagreeing with you doesn't make anyone a simpleton. 

Jaye T. -- you are so right.  The simpleton referred to was me!  The inferrence to candy / sweets is one that I battle with and pay the price of - so even someone like ME gets we can always eat (or do) what we "want." 

Sorry, that wasn't clear.  I believe there could have been any number of examples used - but children and chocolate made sense to me. 

There should not be insults thrown at anyone for disagreeing with how I think and I have done that - it was wrong!  I do have my opinion and that is all I can speak for and of. 

Again, thank you for opening the lines of communication.  This is a start in the right direction, IMHO.

FTY:  I accidently hit the "LIKE" link versus the reply link. 

people that think like you are what is s wrong with our country try LIVE AND LET LIVE,, and yes I would end the war on drugs today if I had the power. And stop trying to force all peopel to be like you.. they are not...

Why would you say there is something wrong with me offering my opinion, same as you offer yours?  Our opinions are different - it certainly doesn't bother me that you don't agree with me!  I don't mind standing alone in my belief systems, but I also do not mind conceding, adapting or changing. 

LIKE I HAVE SAID.... I don't care what the prostitutes do of their own FREE WILL.  I still may not agree with it, but that is their choice and I do respect that.  However,  if given the opportunity, I would try to help them get out of that business if ever they wanted to.    But why would they want to when there IS SO MUCH MONEY TO BE MADE & the demand is so high???  I get it!!!   I get it!!!!   I GET IT.   I have yet to figure it out, but I get it.

We have a responsibility as humans, one to another.  I don't stand in judgment - that isn't my job.  I have already said that.   It does not affect me per say, other than this is a discussion and voicing MY OPINION.  Not yours... and I don't speak for GOD, just from my heart from personal experience and the horrific feeling of being used just for sex. 

Again, I fully support "LIVE AND LET LIVE" I am merely voicing an opinion.  Not trying to force you, prostitutes or their employers to get out of the "biz."  Honestly, what more can I say here???  So, Fred - feel free to start another topic / debate / discussion to bring awareness of the NEED to let people just do what they want.  I am sure there will be many supporters.  Now if those same people continue to vote - they can have exactly the kind of world they want. 

Even if the tables were reversed and I was the minority, I would still believe that it does mental, physical and spiritual damage to the souls involved.  Should I be sorry for having my opinion or just for voicing it?

For the record, I am not against legalized prostitution - but give me the chance and I will get them into yoga and pray them out of the that life.  

Can we have an update on what is going on with the actual "topic."  Any news on the CL homefront, Michelle?  Also, I do apologize for the conversations not always staying "true to topic" but I think it's great that the PeoPs are talking, whether everyone is agreement is NOT the point of being here.  The point is just to expand and share ideas in a respectful community environment.  No lynchings today please?

Why would you say there is something wrong with me offering my opinion, same as you offer yours?  Our opinions are different - it certainly doesn't bother me that you don't agree with me!  I don't mind standing alone in my belief systems, but I also do not mind conceding, adapting or changing. 

LIKE I HAVE SAID.... I don't care what the prostitutes do of their own FREE WILL.  I still may not agree with it, but that is their choice and I do respect that.  However,  if given the opportunity, I would try to help them get out of that business if ever they wanted to.    But why would they want to when there IS SO MUCH MONEY TO BE MADE & the demand is so high???  I get it!!!   I get it!!!!   I GET IT.   I have yet to figure it out, but I get it.

We have a responsibility as humans, one to another.  I don't stand in judgment - that isn't my job.  I have already said that.   It does not affect me per say, other than this is a discussion and voicing MY OPINION.  Not yours... and I don't speak for GOD, just from my heart from personal experience and the horrific feeling of being used just for sex. 

Again, I fully support "LIVE AND LET LIVE" I am merely voicing an opinion.  Not trying to force you, prostitutes or their employers to get out of the "biz."  Honestly, what more can I say here???  So, Fred - feel free to start another topic / debate / discussion to bring awareness of the NEED to let people just do what they want.  I am sure there will be many supporters.  Now if those same people continue to vote - they can have exactly the kind of world they want. 

Even if the tables were reversed and I was the minority, I would still believe that it does mental, physical and spiritual damage to the souls involved.  Should I be sorry for having my opinion or just for voicing it?

For the record, I am not against legalized prostitution - but give me the chance and I will get them into yoga and pray them out of the that life.  

Can we have an update on what is going on with the actual "topic."  Any news on the CL homefront, Michelle?  Also, I do apologize for the conversations not always staying "true to topic" but I think it's great that the PeoPs are talking, whether everyone is agreement is NOT the point of being here.  The point is just to expand and share ideas in a respectful community environment.

I couldn't agree more. People get so bothered by what other people are doing behind closed doors. Why is the religious right so concerned with how gay people have sex, for instance? Some of them seem obsessed by it, which is more than a little unseemly.

Anything forced is, of course, totally wrong, and children deserve to have a childhood free from being used to work out some adult's sexual hangups.

I am a firm believer that two consenting adults should be able to do what they'd like with their bodies.  Unfortunately, you are not getting the fact that this issue is more complex than that.  One can be easily coherced into doing something because of a life that has led them to believe that repeated abuse of their body is what they deserve.

I have heard that legalized prostitution is the answer but know it's not for so many reasons.  Thankfully, as of right now it is illegal in almost all of the US and so when prostitution is concerned it is not the business of just two consenting adults anyway.

Jaye, how you can correlate gay sex with this topic is beyond me.  I am a firm supporter of equal rights and privelages for all in regards to marriage and who they choose to love. 

This issue is about how a business is saying they will change in order to prevent the abuses currently seen on their website but are not making those changes.  It is about how wrong it is to in anyway support the trafficking of children and adults.

People tend to feel strongly about their beliefs and so defensiveness and feeling as if they are SO right is common, and you're right, it can hinder or stop progress in either direction.  Still, possibility for change always exists so does the possibility that I might learn something.  At least that's how I look at it, but we do all have our own ways of looking at things, experiences and beliefs and I respect this.

Back to this particular topic (again).  When you say: "One could just as easily assume that your simplistic solution is "make Craig fix it!" but I'll bet you also know that could never be a complete solution. Scott pointed out some of the difficulties in Craigslist fixing it. I believe in using every tool we have."

The problem with your comment is that I'm not saying that.  CraigsList has admitted they need to fix it and will change certain things in an attempt to fix it.  What I am saying, and I believe what the writer of this blog is saying is actually, "You said you would do these things to tryto fix it, so do it!".  Furthermore, we can tell whether they have made these changes or not-hence the blog to begin with.